English Transcript of Videotaped Meetings Between Massoud Rajavi and the Head of Saddam's Intelligence Services
Haboush: I congratulate you for Eid. Also to Mrs President… 2, 3 days after Eid, Mr [Abu Ahmed] will come to you to get some ideas from you and then we will have a meeting to take note of you needs. The inspectors have arrived, they are looking for new cases. And this is not a very good place. We are alright for land.
Haboush: The place that the inspectors are staying is far from here. That is not a very good place either… we can guarantee as far as land is concerned. But from the air we have problems.
Rajavi: The inspectors have started their work. They could say that we want to inspect the presidential places. What is your opinion on that?
Haboush: I will answer this question very happily.
Rajavi: … What about if you were attacked?
Haboush: Are you talking about the government or about me? Personally, I would not go out of my office.
Haboush: All the brothers know about this… I will not go home to sleep.
Rajavi: It is very good. Then I can call you whenever I want.
Abrishamchi: I am afraid of this sleep. It can become the last sleep.
Haboush: Obviously we have to hide everything from the enemy but I ask you to remember that this is also a fate which is in your own hands. Noting is to be taken as accidental. We ourselves should create our own tactics and means.
Haboush: The believer would not be beaten in the same place twice.
Rajavi: It should be like this. Definitely.
Haboush: 4 or 5 months ago I told him [Abu Ahmed] to act on behalf of the President. And I am saying it now with respect to Mrs President [Maryam Rajavi] and Brother Massoud. Your security is as important for us as the security of the President [Saddam]. I am not the only one saying this. The President himself has emphasised that your security is the same as his own security and what ever there is, they belong to you [Rajavi]. Do not start arguing with me. The land, telephone,… not mentioning your security. I myself will stand as a guard for your base to obey the orders of the President, I am not exaggerating at all. And we have tested you during the year 1991 [The internal uprising in Iraq]. And we know what you are made of.
Haboush: Any problem, please contact me. I am not just saying this. I am serious when I say you are like my brother. I hope that God will work out a way that you could go back to your land and your country.
Haboush: Good bye. May God protect you all.
The Meeting between Massoud Rajavi and the Head of Secret Services of Iraq to receive an Iraqi unit for the security of the Mojahedin
Rajavi: Would you see that we could have these facilities. To buy 100… and after that … (Telephone rings and the Iraqi picks up the phone)
Iraqi: My master, I hope the days are passing well and with happiness. I hope all the days of the year would be your best days. Hope that you are healthy. Everybody is sending their regards. Hoping for a thousand good thing for you. How is your health? May God protect you. On behalf of Ostad Massoud [Rajavi] asking for a possible meeting. No. God forbid. I know it is Eid and there are ceremonies. Any time you say. I have mentioned this before, it is over 7 months now. I am following this. No. I hope so. He [Rajavi] is here now with me. We are talking. Good bye. Then God protect you. After Eid then. He [Rajavi] is sending his regards.
Rajavi: Send my regards also.
Iraqi: God willing, may the prophet accept. He is sending his regards. OK. OK. You know that he [Rajavi] has had some meetings in the level of ministers. You know that Ostad Massoud [Rajavi], by the order of the leadership. That is it. Exactly, yes. Yes. He is sending his regards, he is sending his regards. Good bye. I thank you. Thank you my master. May God increase your popularity even more. Good bye.
Iraqi: (to his consultant) Is this your representative in the Ministry of Defence or is it Ostad Massoud [Rajavi]’s representative?
Iraqi consultant: No, this is our representative.
Iraqi: (looking at his consultant). Tell them the start of logistics and for the aircraft [air defence.] Tell them that he said it has been sent and the letter has been received and the unit that you have asked for. Ali Amini has sent it to the base… The unit that you have asked to be deployed around your bases.
The Iraqi consultant: Yes my master, that is correct my master. We are preparing it. We really like brother Massoud.
I raqi: He [Saddam] is sending his regards to you. We are preparing these and after Eid we will go directly to him [Saddam]. They will be deployed after Eid.
Massoud Rajavi’s Meeting with Taher Aljalil Haboush
Meeting in the years 1998-99
Participating members: Massoud Rajavi, Mehdi Abrishamchi, Abbas Davari,
Ebrihim Zakeri, Rahim…, Mehdi Baraiee
Rajavi: You know yourselves that… What is between the Resistance of Iran and Iraq and the Baath party and Mr President, there are no differences. This is a historical necessity and Mr President told us in our first meeting that… We do not want a relationship between our forces. What we want is a historical relationship… And fortunately, you Iraqis have a historical opportunity and that is that you have a leader like Saddam Hussein… Mr President fundamentally does not play with words or find himself in talking, the talking that … may be from the point of view of your Party… We would never talk more about these … talks that have never been secret… And this is having exact fundamental boundaries in the atmosphere of today’s Iraq. And in the last 13, 14 years, I have seen all of it word by word. Mr President has honoured all of them and this is something for me to be proud of and it encourages me. With those positions that we meet … Sied Al Nayeb and your messenger the Director of Security and today as the Director of the Mokhaberat and in each position or post that we are, we live on the same side and we will have the same fate. In confronting the reactionaries and confronting colonisation and confronting and asking for the maximum.
Rajavi: Whatever you say. My maximum is not more. Let me not be satisfied if, as I become satisfied then it delays the achievement of a goal and mutual interest. You know this very well that nobody in here is after a specific goal. I remember in one of these meetings with the President I said that… He told me that there are complaints about you (so and so said) Massoud Rajavi wants an army and arms. I said that if you think we have something, then send some inspectors and if there is anything extra. You can take them back. Mr President smiled and said: I gave them a better answer. I said, what answer did you give? He said that yes this is very good and much better that he is after more arms rather than sitting in Paris and drinking. You know well that our members and even the Americans have only one word for us. Why Iraq? If you need a window to open in front of you, then you should keep your distance from Iraq and its President [Saddam]. But we, not only do we not want any windows to open but we would rather that its door would close also. It is not possible that we stop all political and diplomatic work. But what we are proud of and do not listen to anybody about it, is that our homelands have become one. I became very happy when I found out that you are involved in our affairs in the Security Council. You know that in 1981 to 1986 we were in France. In those days, the propaganda against us in the radios was not as much as now. Nobody would use the word terrorist against us…
Rajavi: It is known that it was we who exploded the office of the Presidency and the President and the Head of the ministers of the regime or the top officials of the regime [of Iran]. They [the west] know that. They knew that in the past. Nobody would call us terrorists. In no way. They know this very well and even when Khatami was a minister and said that up to the point of cease fire he said that the Mojahedin have killed 11000 of us. But they said that these had come from Iraq. And this report was spread by the Americans to all the Arabic countries.
Rajavi: For example. You mentioned that they have reported a list of my crimes and for example this report of 6th of April 1994. It has come in this report that: (this report is written in Arabic and Rajavi is reading it in Arabic) we had a meeting with Ezat Ebrahim, the deputy head of the Revolutionary Leadership Council and Ali Hassan Al Majid the Interior minister of Iraq. They tell us behind the curtains very clearly. At the end of the meeting. They said a lot of lies and then used them in large scale propaganda and similar to American style propaganda. You can look at this propaganda. The Washington Times… and also you can see the big picture of me and the President [Saddam]. And they have written that… Saddam and also they mention that … Like some papers in the hands of Saddam Hussein.
The meeting of Rajavi and General Saber and the official appreciation of Saddam Hussein for Massoud Rajavi and the National Liberation Army for their suppression of the internal uprisings in Iraq in 1991
Rajavi: How is the President [Saddam]?
General Saber: I am very happy to meet you today. And I also apologise that I could not arrange your meeting… We know that Brother Massoud would understand this issue to a high degree. And you know what has gone on for us… everybody expecting of me that when I come to Mokhaberat [Secret Services] to immediately come and have a meeting with you and I myself really wanted that.
Rajavi: So you know that my first complaint is of you. You know that!?
Rajavi: From you to yourself.
General Saber: Brother Massoud. Please rest assured that the moment that we came to the Mokhaberat, we had the intention of having a meeting with you.
General Saber: You know that we wanted to have a meeting every week. But problems came in the way and that is why we did not promise more meetings.
Rajavi: All right. We can start now having weekly meetings … We can at least guarantee the future in this way. And if I would not be allowed to see you, then what am I going to do. (Everybody laughs)
General Saber: Mr President has sent his warm regards. And he has apologized also on his behalf for not having a meeting and he was talking about you.
General Saber: Also many thanks to the brothers in the National Liberation Army and their big role in the process of the past uprisings and revolts…
General Saber: … and whatever action that you have taken, and I have also told him [Saddam] that you have done a big job and what you did was not proportional to what arms you had and also your actions were very well co coordinated with what little logistics that you were asking from us and we were not able to provide, and I am not surprised (as I know you) and also the ability of the brothers in the National Liberation Army that they show in this situation, for the fighters and their sacrifices have always been more that what was expected and they put forth on their own initiatives.
General Saber: In a meeting with Mr President [Saddam], I asked the President to send an official written letter of appreciation to brother Massoud.
General Saber: The President said that this would not be enough and you should have a meeting and thank him personally and me myself should thank him and on behalf of Estekhbarat [Secret Services] for the very valuable intelligence that they gave us. And all the different actions and also the political activities within International organisations concerning the activities of the Khomeini Regime…
Rajavi: Do not believe his innocence. The innocent one is sitting on this side of the table. He is a very good politician. He is attacking in a framework of defence…
General Saber: The military say the best defence is an attack.
Abrishamch: Their best attack is a defence.
Rajavi: I have to remind you of something first.
Rajavi: I thank you for the kind words of Mr President as well as yours and that we have not done anything extra than our duties and there is no need for Mr President to write anything or to send anything. You know well what was going on and in what exact point we put our hands into each others hands. And that was how our fates were tied together. Our fates have become one and our bloods have been mixed together. And you know that there is no exaggeration in this.
Rajavi: I have a got feeling that I wish that we did not have the political problems… There have been problems which I understand are related to our situation and condition and I wish these political shortcomings would be resolved and I wish that we did not have the military shortcomings and we could perform our duties to the best possible.
Rajavi: I think that the relations between us and you and Iraq, being the government of Iraq or the Baath Party and at the top of it Mr President [Saddam]. And on the other side the Iranian Resistance and the Mojahedin and the National Liberation Army.
Rajavi: I think that our relation is not a purely political relation and one cannot interpret our relations like that any more. And I think that the brotherhood relation has been completed. Such brothers that would not come short of anything for each other.
Rajavi: Whatever is against you, it is obviously against us, and visa versa. Our security is one. When we receive a blow, it is to both of us. And when there is progress, it affects us both. Firstly, I understand your situation very well and understand your needs. The huge amount of pressure which is on you, I also understand. On the other hand I can also understand the heroic resistance of your Leader.
Rajavi: And I also understand that if it wasn’t because of the Baath Party and Mr President [Saddam], Iraq would not have been on today’s maps of the world. The fights that you had, nobody had. The pressures that are on you have never been on any government.
Rajavi: As far as we are concerned I have only one thing to say. In my mind and in my heart, I cannot separate the account of our interests from your interests. They are exactly matching each other
Rajavi: We may have some differences in our views.
Rajavi: The reality is, that our interests match each other and are closely mixed together.
Rajavi: Therefore I would ask you to send my sincere regards to Mr President [Saddam] and say to him that there is no need for him to thank us or anything else.
Rajavi: And tell him on my behalf that we have been in your house and we are with you and will be with you as far as is in our power.
General Saber: We feel ashamed in front of your speech. And in front of your leadership and your organisation, and you and your army and your fighters and your political stands.
General Saber: Exactly in a situation that a common danger was threatening us and this common danger has put us in the same line of defence.
General Saber: We have an Arabic proverb that says: Brothers show themselves in hardship. You supported us with the bodies of your fighters.
General Saber: We were in a situation that you know better. Our army was facing the American army and NATO… and brother Massoud, you may not know that what we were facing and now it is clear for us….
General Saber: The other issue is that during these uprisings that we faced and what we fought against together and defeated… and that was the second phase of the attack and the programs and the plans and plots in this respect.
General Saber: … and the Iraqi army was engaged in war in the Kuwaiti territories. On the 4th day when the Khomeini regime had come…
General Saber: You know that the bridges and the telephones and the roads were cut off between the south and the rest of Iraq…
General Saber: and the mercenaries started the second phase of their attack and there was the uprising …
General Saber: Despite all these we could not send any unit as a military force to the central or northern regions… The cease fire came and as we could bring back some forces, and out of Kuwait, we were able to stop the enemy and the uprisings so they could not do anything and we crushed them hard. And this made the situation easier so we could send our forces to all the regions.
General Saber: Brother Massoud. This was what had happened to us…
The end of the second 45 minutes of the first tape